Do you believe in God?

[aka Heidi (Away)]

Mercy was correct in defending what I said. I do NOT believe that God is real because He cannot be disproven - in my mind, that doesn't even make sense! God cannot be disproven or proven and thus neither believing in God or not believing is "right". Hence why I would never scrutinize an atheist.

All I was saying is that there are always going to be the believers and non-believers because God is not 100% provable. In my opinion we see traces of God in things like miracles, nature, etc, but it's not like someone can put God directly in front of me. That will never happen, and that's why people have doubts.

but on the same token it's pompous to claim that what we believe is right in any case.

This is what I was trying to say. We can't bash down one (non) religious idea because we believe ours is right. None of them are "right" because none can be proven or disproven. There will always be doubt in my opinion.

That's where faith comes in - believing in something that isn't necessarily there. It's similar to how people believe in psychics, mind reading, etc. Of course these things are a little easier to disprove than God, but still, people have faith in them. They believe something is there, but because it isn't 100% provable, there is always going to be that little amount of doubt that it's not actually true.

So what I was trying to say is that I don't believe in God because He cannot be proven. Instead, I believe in God because I have faith. Even though no one will even be able to put God in front of me, I still trust that He is there.

In the end, I was trying to say that everyone has doubt at some point in their life. Even the strict Christians and the firm atheists may at one time have that moment of "am I right"? This is because, like I said, God can't be proven. There is no clear cut line saying that God is real or fake, and thus, everyone will have their doubts with their beliefs at some point. Of course, this is just my opinion and I don't mean to offend anyone by it! Please note that I want to reword what I said earlier adding in "at some point in their life". I'm assuming (and maybe I'm incorrect) that most people have not been completely religious/atheist for their entire life. At some point they must have questioned their belief, and that is because none of this can be proven. If you have a firm stance now, that's great! But at some point, I imagine most people will have doubts. Of course, that's just me assuming, and I could be wrong!

I would also like to point out the concept of the afterlife. As a religious person, I hate to belief that we, as human beings, are just a mix up of chemical reactions. I can't believe, religious or not, that we just "disappear" when we die. I can't even fathom how emotions such as love, happiness, hate, pride, etc can just be chemical reactions that simply cease when we are dead. I do firmly believe that our soul goes to Heaven. The fact that our person just "disappears" into the air when we die bothers me, and I don't believe that could happen. I believe that our soul is forever, and will go elsewhere (not just disappear) after death.
This is also greatly comforting for me, and maybe that's partially why I believe in God. I'd hate to believe that we are just here to be here, and I want to believe that we have a purpose. Something as beautiful as emotion or love cannot just be the making of science in my opinion. As a science major for many years I realize that chemicals make up reactions and emotions in the brain and that there are scientific ways of explaining these things. But my question is - what made these chemicals, allowing us to feel these emotions? I firmly because it is God. There are there for a reason, not solely a result of chemical reactions.

In the end, I'm not saying if God is 100% not or real. Saying He is or is not would be foolish of me because you cannot prove either side. I'm simply saying that I believe He is real and that I have faith He exists.

I'm sorry if that made this conversation more confusing, I'm not very good at explaining my religious views I suppose!

[Brittany (gone-ish)]

So I, like Heidi, both believe in God and religion. Admittedly, I sometimes have a love-hate relationship with the religious aspect, but more on that later.

I like to believe that there is some benevolent, all-knowing entity out there watching over humanity. It doesn’t necessarily matter what that being is called because each faith has a different name for him or her (God, Yahweh, Allah, Jehovah, Shiva/Vishnu, etc.), but that being unconditionally loves mankind. I think that can be comforting, especially in times of great hardship, to feel as though there is something out there that loves you despite your flaws and transgressions. At least it is comforting to me.

Believing is God is something that is based on faith like Heidi said. I can’t prove or disprove that he exists to anyone, but for me there is no doubt in my mind that God is out there.

Also like Heidi I have a hard time believing that once a person dies they are just gone. We are bodies that decay, yes, but there is a lot more to a person than flesh and bone. There are personalities, dreams, memories, and spirits, and I don’t think that death has the power to wipe away all of those things. The stuff that made the deceased a person I loved was not just a bunch of chemical reactions because really does that stuff make anyone unique? I find comfort in imagining that good people find peace in an afterlife where that soul can live on.

For me, a belief in God is about being comforted in times when things are beyond my comprehension or I find myself groping about in a metaphorical darkness.

As for religion…I grew up in an Episcopalian family where we went to church every Sunday and every major liturgical holiday, I altar-served, I had all of my sacraments (Baptism, Communion, and Confirmation). I also went to Catholic schools for eight years and studied catechism and canon law. Honestly, I have many problems with the Catholic Church and I’m grateful to not be one of that particular flock, but I do love my Episcopal faith. Regardless, I respect religion (all religions) because of the history, traditions, and the sense of community.

My love-hate relationship with religion is really my issues with the religious justifications people use to harm others physically or emotionally. But I think it’s unfair to fault religion as a whole for such shortcomings because those shortcomings are generally human in origin and isolated to a small extremist group. I’m not saying always, but sometimes that is the case.

Religion is about belonging to something bigger than ourselves, sharing a commonality with someone from a different walk of life. As a kid, I was much more religious than I am now. Certain teachings I don't agree with now that I'm much older and more informed, but my religious community is like a second family to me regardless.

[Megan]

I wasn't going to join this thread as I feel like other atheists have pretty much said all there is to say on my behalf, however I watched Rosabeth's video, and not only did I agree with everything she said, but it made me want to get involved in this discussion.

I am an atheist, and have been since I was capable of independent thought. I went to a CoE school until I was eleven, so grew up singing hymns, saying prayers, attending church for Easter/Christmas services, and since everyone around me identified as Christian, I did too until I was six or seven.

However, for as long as I can remember I have considered the ideas of God, heaven, hell, and souls fictional. It just wasn't something I could believe, and even when I was a small child who believed in the tooth fairy and Santa I couldn't believe in God, as much as I tried to. I Identified as Christian because at school I began to feel like if you didn't, you weren't a good person.

Whilst my school was religious, religion was pretty much absent in my house. I wasn't Christened, and neither were my little brother or sister. My mum is a Baptist, but she isn't practicing. She believes in God, but she doesn't go to church and has a fairly modern mindset in regards to abortion, marriage, premarital sex, etc. I've only known her to pray in times of complete desperation. My dad is as absolute as atheists come, and to this day I remember him sitting me down when I was fairly young after I asked why I was never Christened, and why we didn't go to church like some of my friend's families. He told me that it was because he didn't believe in God, and that neither he or my mum felt that going to church every week made them better people. He said that as a family we worked hard to earn an honest living, we were kind, generous, honest and loving. We were faithful to our friends and extended help to those in need. We didn't steal or hurt people or do bad things. He said we were still good people if we didn't believe in God, and we did those things because we were human and we had empathy, not because some higher power wanted us to behave that way. He said we weren't Christened because they wanted us to make our own decisions about religion when we were old enough.

From that day on, I realised that identifying as an atheist, and being open about the fact that I didn't couldn't believe in God didn't make me a bad person.

As much as I would like to, I can't believe in an afterlife, however I think there's a certain beauty in death, in your body being reclaimed by the earth and becoming a part of it once your consciousness has gone. I don't think it's something to be feared, and I don't see the need to seek comfort in the idea of an afterlife. I think the natural order of things, in itself, is beautiful.

Our planet is amazing, but I can't believe anything other than it being the result of coincidence and millions of years of evolution. In my mind, there are too many issues for it to be the object of some higher power's creation. Over population, sickness, pain, suffering, natural disasters, food shortages, war (I won't start on war that's the result of religious quarrel...). Our world is incredible, but far from perfect, and I find it hard to comprehend that people who believe in God still worship when so much unnecessary pain and suffering continues.

Anyway, those are my thoughts. I got far too into this than I meant to.

[Maddy]

Alright, I'll jump into this discussion...

I do believe in God and religion. I am a member of the Mormon church and I have always believed in the basic principles that it teaches. My whole immediate family are members of the church, but my parents have never really taught religion in our house, they always let us decide whether or not we wanted to go to church with them and stuff like that. A lot of people who are raised into the Mormon religion are accused of believing what they do because their parents do, but I promise that my own beliefs (while they have been strengthened by others) are completely my own. I'll try to keep it short by saying that I do believe in God, Jesus Christ, and an afterlife including heaven and hell.

I believe that organization within religion is a good thing. Some people say that religious groups are just a systematic way of forcing everyone in them to believe and follow the same things, and that the group shapes the beliefs of the individuals. I don't agree with that, I think that religious organizations offer their beliefs and welcome anyone who agrees with them. They are a place for a group of people who all believe in the same things to come together and help each other learn and grow in those beliefs. I don't think that religious organizations are destructive to society in any way, and I think that they strengthen their members.


After Elizabeth made a video about this I decided it was a good topic for a vlog, so if anyone is interested in what I have to say, here it is. (This isn't about my personal religious views, it's about my opinions of religion in general. Don't worry, I'm not trying to convert anyone ;P)

[Rosabeth]

I'd just like to jump in and insert a little comment that I think is really important when addressing the notion of the value of religion, organized or not.

Whether people believe religion is inherently good or bad, whether or not belief is important or not, I think it's important to know that both sides of this debate can coexist peacefully as long as these beliefs don't become all consuming. I think a lack of moderation on either side is where belief becomes dangerous, and thus is why I think organized religion isn't good for society because I find that in most cases organizations don't promote moderation as moderation rarely furthers a cause. However, if such moderation can exist within individuals, if individuals can look past their respective groups and beliefs and learn to accept the other side then we eliminate a lot of what is our issue within society. When I say "accept" the views of the other side I don't mean agree with as that's not really possible, all I mean is to realize that you are at an impasse and let bygones be bygones.

Of course my words are just getting jumbled here but what I'm trying to say really is that though two viewpoints may be opposed, and though those groups may always be at opposition and in conflict, it is important for the individuals to take this thought to heart when it comes to relating other individuals. Let me just give an example because my long wording isn't really helping anything right now.

Maddy and I (the Maddy directly above) have been friends for a long time and we're pretty much at the opposite ends of the spectrum when it comes to religion. Ok, not the total opposite ends as she's not the most religious person I've ever met, but you still get the idea. Despite this we've never had any religious arguments and we never even really talk about it. She knows my views and I know hers, and though neither of us agree with the other we don't really care because as long as we are both independent in thought enough to realize the value of the person and not their beliefs such things become irrelevant.

Lol, so basically I'm going totally hippie on everyone as opposed to my pretty negative last post, but I was just come over with a wave of positivity so I thought I'd share it before it disappears for a year. XD

On an unrelated note I'd like to pose a question for you all.

How have your experiences with religion and the religious shaped your own views on religion?

Growing up in an extremely religious community and being an atheist is probably the number one reason why I'm so critical and negative about religion as an institution. I've lost some friends over these issues as a child, I've had some really uncomfortable talks, and I've felt ostracized and isolated for a lot of my childhood. This is more the doing of the religion in question as a whole and its views on conversion and non-believers and not so much the individual members, though many are swayed by the church's views. I think it's important to note people's experiences before jumping down their throats because one's background on a topic often greatly influences their behaviors and beliefs as they get older.

[Maddie]

I feel like I definitely grew up with a certain aversion to going to church because I always found it rather boring and I didn't like getting up early and rushing through breakfast and showering and getting ready just to go sit and be quiet and sit still for an hour. A lot of my early memories involve sitting in this really gorgeous Episcopal church we used to go to (I've been to a few different denominations and Episcopal churches are lovely - very Catholic-y but much more liberal) and being totally immersed in a book throughout the whole service.

I've also got theories that that's why my dad doesn't take what I say about my religion (or lack of a religion) as seriously as I would like him to. I was always trying to get out of going to church as a kid, except now I really do have a reason not to go. I don't have any negative views on religion itself exactly, unless people use it for their own hateful purposes in which case they're awful but I try to remember that those people don't represent religion as a whole.

Basically, I feel like the fact I was always super bored and uninterested in church could have something to do with my current views on religion, but it's also largely the fact I'm capable of independent thought.

[Jase]

I'm not going to say much, just throw in my two cents.

Whenever I talk to people, they are usually shocked to find out that I do believe in God. Actually, being in the LGBT community, sometimes I feel judged for believing in God. I've talked to a few other gay people who just give me the weirdest look when I tell them I believe in God. Like I've said something inherently offensive and betrayed every other gay person somehow.

I grew up with religion and faith; I've since steered myself from the heavy teachings of the Greek Orthodox beliefs, and have found solace in a God that the New Testament preaches of. The way I see it, God is supposed to love all of us, no matter what. I can't explain why bad things happen, and I can't say why He lets them occur, but it's my belief that we are here and being watched over.

There is a certain comfort about having faith, and I've used prayer as a tool to calm myself before. I think the notion that we just are no more after death is one that is... morbid, and even just plain unexciting. What is that quote, something like, "Death is life's biggest adventure"? I think that is a bit more appealing to the writer in me.

[Ana]

My views have been summed up pretty well by other people but I'd still like to share them with you guys.

I am an emphatic and devout Atheist. But I, unlike my best friend or over-dramatic mother, can completely and utterly understand why there is religion. For starters, it's comforting. For another thing, it brings people together. Finally, and perhaps most importantly, the general consensus that God exists has been with us for almost the whole of human history.

However, the lack of evidence that could prove any religion (of the huge amount there are at hand) makes it impossible for me to believe. I've always needed proof for things. I can't just have faith. I live and breathe doubt.

I think that, science and religious teachings aside, just by looking at the world, I could never believe in a God. Not only is the world cruel and harsh and arbitrary in punishment, but it all seems so pointless. Something as wonderful and great as God could not have possibly (in my mind) created this floating rock dominated by murderous apes.

For me, the beauty of the universe is in it's complete and utter chaos and lack of design.
Nothing happens for a reason but everything happens because of a reason. I don't think that someone gets fired so they can discover something more worthwhile, but someone can discover something more worthwhile because they lost their previous job. I don't know if I'm explaining my point very well at all. What I'm really trying to do is show my opposition to destiny and how I think people confuse "meant to be" with "happened to be", and "destiny" or "fate" with causality.

The idea of God and Jesus and Noah and all of it has just seemed, as Meg said, fictional to me. Nothing more than a fairy tale. I went to a CoE school too and, even though it was taught as fact, the Bible stories seemed just like stories to me.

Regarding Religious groups, nobody could argue that death and destruction has never come from a Religious organisation, but nobody could argue that phenomenal good has never come from a Religious organisation. Any and all organisations can be dangerous, religious or not. Some bring the world joy and some bring the world horrors (many bring both) and that's why I don't really like arguing that "Religious Groups" are anything. They're all different. I would never say that all charities or schools or clubs are either good or evil. It depends on the people who belong to them.

My view of the afterlife is entirely predictable I'm afraid. This is the only life we've got. That's it. Then we return to the earth. Like everything we're from the earth and our atoms and energy will go back into the ground. Some people find that depressing or unbelievable but I think it's kind of nice. "We are made of stardust"

[cat.]

I believe in religion, and identify with Christianity, but to my own degrees. I grew up in a household that was, yes, religious, but also very open and flexible.
For my mom, who is very in touch with the Lord, she was hurt and confused when my brother and I openly expressed disregard for the Church, but instead of getting angry and telling us to go, no questions asked, she asked many. She found that both my brother and I expressed dislike for organized religion because of the people who went to church (especially our particular church), the supposed "followers of Christ."

For my brother, it was the fact that so much death and carnage had come out of the discussion of where we go after we die (he could probably go for days on that subject, so I'll just leave it there). For me, it was that and the fact that the girls I saw in sermon on Sundays were the same girls who had puked their guts out and fucked some guy in a laundry room that Friday night. Also, the church we attended was more of a money-making machine than a church--it had an elevator, and if someone went to a Church dinner, they had to pay $6 a person to get in. When I lived in NorCal, and my family was struggling with poverty, the Church let us eat with them every Wednesday for free. I don't know what kind of church needs an elevator, but if you refuse to let members of your congregation gather and eat and bond over God without paying money, something is wrong.

It was a shame, because our particular pastor was an amazing speaker, and always had engaging, thought-provoking sermons that related to modern life--he was absolutely fantastic.
So, for both my brother and I, we were fed up with the hypocrisy. And my mother told us that our opinions--though she did not agree with them--were valid, and she wasn't going to force us to go to sermon.

After several years, I became dependent on prescription drugs, homeless, and just a mess. A Christianity-based shelter took me in, and gave me a Bible. Though I will agree, that most of the lessons in there are fictional stories, I believe fully in their morals. I believe that Jesus walked the Earth, but am not quite sure if he preformed miracles, or rose from the dead. There is still a lot of doubt of the authenticity of the Bible on my part, but I believe that the morals of it are strong. And in reading, and connecting, and being supported, I came back to the roots of religion again.

The one thing I do not believe in is forcing another to participate in religion (going to church, ect), telling someone that they're wrong, immoral, or stupid for not believing what you believe, or telling them they're wrong for not conforming to your religious ideals (being gay, sexually active before marriage, ect). Even though I identify with Christianity, the Bible, and the idea of heaven and hell, I believe it on my own terms, not what a pastor reads and interprets for me, or tells me is "correct" or "God's way" at a sermon. I certainly wouldn't tell someone that they were wrong for believing what they want to, as long as they are not shaming, insulting, or hurting another human being.

P.S. Forgot to add: from my observations, putting your child in Catholic school is a safe guarantee that they will never embrace the Catholic faith.

[Rose]

It seems to me that everything has mostly been said, so I'll just answer the question in its most basic form which is: Yes, I do believe in God. And I have no problem with people who don't. There was a point in my life, yeah, where I almost didn't want to have faith because I was (and still am) openly criticized for it, but, like some people just can't believe it, I can't keep myself from believing it. Now that I sound like a low budget preacher I'll stop here. XD But yeah, that's that.

[cat.]

Dec 5, 2012 10:29:28 GMT -8 Mikkay said:

Dec 2, 2012 7:43:06 GMT -8 cat. said:

P.S. Forgot to add: from my observations, putting your child in Catholic school is a safe guarantee that they will never embrace the Catholic faith.

Oh, I have friends from elementary/middle/high school who are devout Catholics, both because of family influence and personal choice. But I am very proud of my education, and very glad I suffered went through thirteen years of it. I'd send my own children in a heartbeat, if I could afford it.

Haha, I'm mostly talking about close friends I have known IRL who had been enrolled in Catholic school, and hated it with a passion. I didn't intend to speak for the entire population of adults who have gone though and graduated from Catholic schooling by any means.

[aka Heidi (Away)]

I also went to a Catholic school and hated it. It wasn't until later, when I evaluated the religion and my own beliefs did I decide to stay with the religion.
I feel like these schools are discouraging for students/teens because they don't allow for much flexibility. It's "you will believe this" and doesn't really allow much for personal growth or uniqueness. As a result, students might feel pressure or suffocation, which is never good.

[Ange Keating]

I went to catholic school as well; matter of fact, going to church was a graded class. Although it spurred a hate in my sister more, I still went through a rebellious period where I didn't want to be Catholic just because I was forced to do it when I was younger (alter serving, all that jazz). Finally, like Heidi, I re-evaluated the religion and decided I still believed in it for the most part. There are a lot of things about Christianity and organized religion in general I don't agree with, but they aren't too huge as to sway me. And of course, I love delving into other religions as well and hate boxing myself in one.

[bryony]

I too went to a catholic school! But I changed schools at the age of about... eight, so maybe my experience was less formative than some others.

I'm christened, but the only reason my parents actually had me christened was because the school had preference for kids who were baptised catholic. Yeah, my introduction to catholicism was a ploy to get me into one of the better schools in town. So far as I can tell, I don't think my school was that different to other non-catholic ones. I mean, we had mass every thursday morning instead of an assembly, but other than that it wasn't that bad.

Maybe I was too young to notice anything different, but we had RE lessons and such, and I did some altar service, but other than that... I loved that school. I don't really feel it influenced my personal religious views at all, it was just school and the religious side was just one aspect that I don't think dominated it at all. I was happy with catholicism until a few years ago when I was perhaps a little more mature and able to understand everything it involved and make up my own mind. Maybe the catholic schools here in the UK are a little different? If people are willing to share, what about catholic schools that turned you against catholicism?