Fifty Shades?

[Mikkay]

Oh! Pride and Prejudice and Zombies! (And Sense and Sensibility and Sea Monsters, I think?) I meant to mention those, actually. Jane Austen is in the public domain, so there's (at the very least) a legal difference between that and something like this.

I also think it's interesting looking at, for example, the Star Wars novelizations. I don't think those are technically fanfiction, but then, I haven't read enough of them or about them to make that call. Did certain facts from the novelizations (that have become canon) come from George Lucas, or did he simply release the novelization rights for his galaxy to the few dozen writers and let them have at it? There has to be some sort of contractual connection, or else there would be too many discrepancies between books. Maybe there are, but as far as I can tell, things fit together pretty well, which lends itself to the side that it's not fanfiction--that these authors were paid to write the world outside of the films, rather than perhaps writing them simply because they wanted to.

Lines are blurred all over the publishing industry. It comes down to what will sell. And, like it or not, Fifty Shades is both literally and figuratively piggybacking on Twilight's success, aimed at a more mature audience. And Fifty Shades was originally self-published, so popularity was originally born out of interest, not marketing. That's what's impressive... or, at the very least, intriguing in considering, "Why porn now?" XD

I have no idea why I'm so into this discussion. I just love analyzing fandom and popularity in culture, almost as much as I love participating in it.

[Brittany (gone-ish)]

Even if Twilight isn't public domain, I'm sure that whatever publishing house printed Fifty Shades made sure that they weren't violating any copyright laws. And although I was using those examples, they aren't the only fanfiction that has been published. By nature, fanfic is going to piggyback off the success of whatever it is fanaticizing. But even if it started out as fanfiction, it isn't copying the Twilight plot; she wasn't re-writing the book as an all sex version. At most, the characters' personalities, which we have pretty much all agreed were flat, are similar. But flat characters don't leave room for much interpretation.

It might have been self-published, but it also managed to catch the eye of an editor. That editor made it into something that millions of people now have access to that might not have had that access before. The marketing was just done backwards-- usually the book is published and then the author tries to build a following and create a presence in other medias. Fifty Shades already had a following and the writer was known on the internet before the book came into being.

[Mikkay]

I'm not asking whether Fifty Shades did or did not break Meyer's copyright--I'm more interested in the fact that it is fanfiction (89% passage/word retention between the original fic and the published novel), and it's the fanfiction of something both incredibly popular and incredibly recent, and it turned itself into something equally popular. Personally, I'm still not comfortable with that sort of precedent being set, at least for the sake of my own interests, but again, it's marketing.

Yet, the author and the story garnered attention without a formal marketing strategy. The editor, publishing house, and the rest came second. It was done backwards, like you said Brittany, and that's the point I was also making. The market increased when the book was picked up, but that doesn't negate the fact that there was legitimate interest before any such strategy had been set in place. The backward-ness of it all is cool. Inspiring, even, to authors who believe they have a story to tell but are either rejected by the market or don't want to go that route.

Still... I am decidedly uncomfortable with published fanfiction. Maybe because I was so protective of my characters, or maybe because fanfiction can be so vague. Where do you draw the line? You have direct and deliberate plagiarism on one extreme, but can you even define the other side? When does one's story move from fanfiction to "inspired by such-and-such"? Having the legal, copyright issues just make it more complicated. That's why fanfiction based on work in the public domain, at least, is easier to define.

Though copyright law isn't so clearly stated, either.

[Brittany (gone-ish)]

I'm going to argue that Fifty Shades is not fanfiction after I did some research on E.L. James and her writing process, which I didn't know when I called it fanfic a couple posts ago . I know that's probably ballsy considering how often it's called Twilight fanfiction but...lol. I won't deny that James wrote Twilight fanfic; her first draft, Master of the Universe, was fanfiction with Edward and Bella as the main characters. But that was only the first draft. When she moved it to her own site, she is reported to have rewritten it as an original and extended piece that became the trilogy.

And if the parenthetical is stating that fanfiction is defined as an 89% passage/word retention of Twilight in Fifty Shades, then I don't think it fits that criteria that you put forth either. What similarities people have seen between the two stories could easily be found in dozens of other famous novels because both novels used very flat, empty characters-- Ana is just the ugly duckling archetype and Christian is the brooding, misunderstood male that oozes sex appeal. That's traditional of romance novels. You can say the same of the lovers being from two very different world and backgrounds.

The rest of the similarities I found online are the setting (but Twilight doesn't have a copyright on Washington state), a guy loving cars, a hot-headed jealous guy, the guy asks the dad for permission to marry the daughter, they are each other's firsts (hers sexually, his as a girlfriend), etc. I'm sure there are other similarities that can be made, but I don't really know if it is enough to say it's really fanfiction or that it's just an incredibly cliche love story that was made unique by the BDSM sex scenes.

I think, if anything, saying it was Twilight fanfiction was taken out of context, but still used as a marketing ploy so that the book could ride on the coattails of Twilight's success like you've said. But considering that probably 90% of each of these books are just sex scenes I don't know how it could be retaining 89% of a YA novel. It was just a brilliant marketing strategy, which probably had a lot to do with the intrigue of the phenomenon.

I'm totally with you, Mikkay, on feeling decidely uncomfortable with published fanfiction for much of the same reason that you are--I am very protective of my characters too. But it really doesn't matter to me whether it's public domain or not, whether it's a recent and popular work or an old and not widely read piece, because they're still someone's characters and creative property. But the published Fifty Shades is not the original fanfiction that James is credited for writing three years ago.

There are similarities, yes, I won't deny that. But how many books after Harry Potter suddenly featured a school for young wizards? How many novels feature a "three musketeers archetype" or the best friends falling in love? Maybe we've been too quick to label James as a hack writer with no original thought. Maybe she's just an amateur writer who, like many, started off as a fanfiction writer and used that as a springboard for something original.

Anyway xD. This really had nothing to do with what Heidi was asking in her first post so I am going to stop now lol. Sorry Heidi!

[Mikkay]

Someone ran both Master of the Universe (what I meant when I said "original") and Fifty Shades of Grey through a program that compares the text word-by-word. 89% of the original fic--meaning words, phrases, sentences, chapters--was present in Fifty Shades. That doesn't even account for all the repetitions of names that were simply changed from Bella and Edward to Ana and Christian.

Sorry for the misinterpretation that when I said "original" I meant Twilight. I revoked what I'd said about copying passages directly from Twilight earlier, but I thought that's what it meant, but I found the article I'd read here and realized my mistake.

Maybe you hadn't intended for this thread to get this kind of response, Heidi, but I'm entertained and glad somebody finally made a place to talk about it. XD

[Reilly]

I have a lot of issue with these books.

And before someone jumps down my throat – no, I don’t have a problem with BDSM. It’s just another lifestyle. As long as everyone involved consents, all parties’ needs are being met, and things like safewords are practiced, I don’t have a problem.

Here’s my main problem with Fifty Shades of Grey:

1. Its published Twilight fanfiction. My opinion on this is that you don’t attempt to publish a fic, unless you’ve basically rewritten it to the point where it’s unrecognizable from the piece it’s based off of. Fifty Shades is not that. Fanfiction is already under attack from a load of authors who don’t like the idea of other people playing with their characters. The idea that someone could write an AU fic of their work, change the names, and have it make millions while they’re unable to do anything about it, is only more of a reason for them to hate it.

2. The relationship is abusive. Not because it’s BDSM. Because even outside of that he is a creep and a Nice Guy. He uses his incredible wealth to stalk Anastasia (he knows her freaking bank details!), showers her with gifts that only make her feel inferior and in his debt, gets mad at her for things she has no control over (like the Mexican version of Jacob calling her), he constantly makes her feel like shit (to the point where she cries herself to sleep multiple times), refuses to communicate, and implies he could rape her when they’re out for diner.

Most of all, he doesn’t approach the BDSM relationship in a healthy way. Oh yeah, here we go. First he says he won’t do anything outside a strict and impersonal sub/dom relationship, which clearly does not sit well with Ana for understandable reasons. Then when he finds out she’s a virgin, he has to have sex with her right away. Okay, so he is willing to try a little compromise, right? Wrong. Even after they have sex, even though she clearly is not okay with what he expects from her, he keeps talking about the damn contract and how much she’ll love being a sub. Huge mixed signals. And it doesn’t get any better as the book progresses, because later on she realizes she either lets him spank her or their confusing relationship is over; she makes it very clear in her narration that she hates it and is only doing it to keep Christian happy, then later goes home and cries while referring to it as a beating. Healthy BDSM relationships don’t do that.

I’m not eloquent enough to fully explain how wrong and damaging the relationship in Fifty Shades of Grey is, butthis woman is. She did a whole read-a-long of the first book and is now on the second. To give her credibility, she writes erotica for a living, including BDSM. She knows her stuff.

And if it wasn’t clear, yes, I have read the book. Well, skimmed it + a read-a-long. Skipped the second, tried the third and had to quit because it’s the most fanficy of them all. She marries him, he constantly refers to her as “Mrs Grey” like it’s the sexiest thing in the universe, and she gets pregnant with a dramatic C-Section thrown in.

[bunnny]

a'ight, so i haven't read the book(s), so my opinion is probably completely invalid, but i'm going to throw my two cents in anyways, because 'MURICUH.

i honestly had no idea that fifty shades of grey was originally a fan-fiction of twilight. no clue. and, by the looks of it, everything i've read in this thread shows me that there's probably not a single thing that hints towards the books being based off of twilight. i'm sure it probably originally was a fan-fiction, and from what you guys have said, the final books have been reworked to seem more original, and from the excerpts i've heard on youtube, i really don't see how the two books connect... at all. but then again, i haven't actually read the books myself, so i could be wrong. but i still just don't see how it's such a big uproar that the book was originally a fan-fiction for twilight when i've seen practically nothing similar between the two, besides, i guess, very minor details that could easily pass as coincidence.

as for the books being grammatically incorrect or any type of incorrect is pretty, well, bullshit. authors write what they want to write, how they want to write. it's not an english class. they're not getting graded on it. it's not going to determine whether or not they pass a class. it's simply the author's choice of writing style, and shouldn't be criticized in a way that an essay would be when there are plenty of authors and poets and the like that, i'm sure, have written worse. mark twain, anyone? ever read one of his books? ever counted how many grammatical errors are in there? and you're all probably going to say, 'well, that's dialect.' yes, and it's also the author's choice of writing style. and how mercy mentioned the road, that's got a few errors in there as well. i've read plenty of books with errors, or that were choppy, or just not very sophisticated. but, to be honest, i really don't think it matters. it's the author's choice, and if that's how they want to write, then so be it. it's their creation, not yours, so don't worry about it.

also, about the book showing signs of abuse. has anyone ever read speak? or anything that writes about unhealthy relationships, rape, personal issues such as suicide/self-harm/etc.? anything that writes about things that are frowned upon? anyone ever read a chuck palahniuk book, where pretty much everything he writes is shocking? i think everyone needs to take a step back and realize that this is a book, not a true story, not an advocator, nothing. it's a book. with fictional characters. written for entertainment purposes only. don't take it so much to heart and assume that the author is going around telling people to have an abusive relationship or something. you forget that this is a book, that was apparently originally a fan-fiction - which, by the way, fan-fiction is probably ninety percent as pornographic and inappropriate and shocking as this, full of incest and more. you forget that this book isn't some politician or someone, advocating abuse and rape threats and the like. perhaps the author wrote it to show how unhealthy the relationship and the circumstances are. perhaps the author wrote it just for fun. or maybe because of a dream they had. or maybe because of whatever. it doesn't matter. the point is, it's a book, and it's not the worst thing out there.

in other news, i probably won't read it, as i'm not into the whole reading about sexual experiences, hahaha. i'm way too immature to not giggle while reading that. plus, i feel it'd be way awkward having that book when a friend is over or something and having to explain that i'm pretty much reading porn, bahahaha. so yeah, i'm just going to stick with game of thrones and the rest of my pile of books that i have to finish reading.

(also, if anyone happened to be offended by what i said, chillchillchillchill. it's going to be okay. i, in no way, meant to be rude or disrespectful. i was just reading these posts and was like, 'okay people are taking this way too seriously i think i need to be dumb and put my two cents in and z snap my way out of the thread.' feel free to tell me i'm wrong and all that jazz, but i probably won't reply because i'm lazy and i don't like to debate and i already added my opinion and got it out of my system. c: i'm also really tired and out of it so i'm probably 349% more dumb than i think and for that i apologize. bless your face.)

[Maddie]

I have read Speak, and it is in no way comparable to Fifty Shades of Grey. Speak is a story of recovery, it's powerful, it has meaning. Fifty Shades of Grey is not any of those things. I understand she's not going around advocating for people to get into an abusive relationship, but that doesn't mean she's not glamorizing it. Just because something isn't directly encouraged doesn't mean it's not being somehow made okay or normalized or treated like it's not a big deal. That's a large part of the reason why Twilight itself is so problematic.

[Ange Keating]

I'm really not sure how I stand, to be honest. Like Cheyenne, I've never read Fifty Shades, and in my first post, I really don't want to either. But there are some points of her argument I somewhat agree with. Again, I have never read the book, but I'm getting the vibe that it supposedly portrays BDSM in a negative way, and also has abusive elements as well.

Personally, I don't think anyone should take the book seriously. It's meant to entertain a certain market. Relationships like these go on each and every day, and just because it's negative doesn't mean it shouldn't be written. Some authors try to get a reaction out of their audience and also, like Chey said, I doubt she intended to glamorize abusive relationships. The book is solely meant for entertainment, not to drastically change people's views of mannerisms. People and certain markets have different fetishes xD

That being said, I do think there should be some sort of finesse in an author's writing. Speaking for me, I have a difficult time getting into things I can't read smoothly. I have no idea if the grammatical errors in Fifty Shades were stylistic or unintentional, which does make a difference, so I can't specifically make an argument there. I'm just stating my general opinions.

And also on Twilight, which I'll keep my point relatively short because I can get long-winded talking about the book, it's also another piece of literature that shouldn't be taken particularly seriously. I don't think Stephanie Meyer is trying to be the next Margarett Mitchell or Jane Austen; she's just trying to appease a certain audience, and clearly, she has done that pretty decently. I hate Twilight. Really can't stand it. But it serves its purpose of entertainment.

(haha, my statements obviously may not be all the way accurate, mostly for Fifty Shades as I have never looked at a page, but figured I'd add in my two scents and build upon my original, and rushed, statement. Also, I'm not a huge huge huge reader but I've read a pretty decent amount of novels and stories and such. Looking through all your posts definitely has me thinking though!)

[Reilly]

I'm sorry chey, but I'm gonna have to completely disagree.

It is never "just a book." Fiction doesn't exist in a bubble. It's a reflection of us. Of what we value as a society and how we see things. We grow up with it and we learn from it, we make decisions based off it, and then we pass what we've learned on. Even if it's vile, bigoted, and wrong. Unless we make an effort to be aware of how our stories and media affect us, and understand they do mean something, it will continue to be passed on and cause real damage.

Nobody is implying E. L. James is advocating abuse. Nor is it a cautionary tale. Her portral is a complete accdient. That just makes it all the worse though. Because, like Stephanie Meyer, the relationship she wanted to convey was one of true love - and instead what came through was an insecure young woman being preyed upon by an obsessive, controlling stalker. And that does have real world cosequences. Girls want a boyfriend like Edward and women want their husbands to be more like Christian Grey. What should be sending alarm bells off are instead being defended as "caring".

[aka Heidi (Away)]

I completely agree with what Reilly is saying - that these books are reflections of who are we as a society. Of course this doesn't encompass everyone - of course there are people out there that hate the idea of this novel, or are against it - but it's popularity definitely says something about us as people.
We a society that values sex above things like dignity, respect, etc - you don't see many books with a dominant or even co-dependant relationship getting this popular! The closet thing to a popular, strong female character was Katniss and even that didn't focus mainly on the relationship, as these books do.
And also, if it's popularity has a lot to do with people buying the book as "a joke" or "to laugh" - doesn't that say something about us, as well? That we would rather read a book that we hate and what to make fun of than something of value to us. Where else does this happen in life, where we take the time to make fun of something rather than something that could benefit us?

Aug 29, 2012 21:24:44 GMT -8 Mikkay said:

Oh! Pride and Prejudice and Zombies! (And Sense and Sensibility and Sea Monsters, I think?) I meant to mention those, actually. Jane Austen is in the public domain, so there's (at the very least) a legal difference between that and something like this.

Sorry to tread backwards but I had to comment on this anyways. Just because Austen is long dead and her books are public domain, this is essentially the same thing. The authors of these Austen novels are basically using the idea and title of Austen's books to sell. Isn't this exactly what EL James is doing - using parts of a popular novel to sell her book? Just because Pride and Prejudice isn't owned by a singular person or publisher doesn't mean that's not right to take these ideas and use them for a money-grab. They were originally someone else's ideas, and just because she's dead doesn't make what EL James is doing any worse than the authors of Sense and Sensibility and Sea Monsters.

[Mikkay]

Aug 30, 2012 18:27:28 GMT -8 Reilly said:

It is never "just a book." Fiction doesn't exist in a bubble. It's a reflection of us. Of what we value as a society and how we see things. We grow up with it and we learn from it, we make decisions based off it, and then we pass what we've learned on. Even if it's vile, bigoted, and wrong. Unless we make an effort to be aware of how our stories and media affect us, and understand they do mean something, it will continue to be passed on and cause real damage.

I definitely agree with this. Beautifully spoken, Reilly.

Chey, perhaps you read solely for entertainment, and that's okay. I, on the other hand, am currently in an academic environment where I'm consistently asked to analyze everything I read and respond critically. When it comes to fandom, in which I have a particular interest, there's no way I'm letting it slide without needing to comment and instigate a discussion about a book or movie or TV show's other values (or lack thereof). So I'm probably not going to chill. I thrive on discussion.

I actually played a game with a friend and summarized the Twilight series as best I could, hitting all the major plot points. Then we looked up plot summaries for James' series, and there's a significant overlap (plus sex). Immediate and intense physical attraction? Check. Man with stalkerish tendencies, unlimited funds, and boundless resources? Check. The man's family is very present. There's the overly dramatic breakup, which apparently lasted only three days in Fifty Shades. Destination honeymoon. Unwanted pregnancy, where the female is protective and the man is furious. It's not in exactly the same order, but pretty close--the publishers were probably very careful about disguising these points unless you know what you're looking for. I mean, it's fact: this story was originally Twilight fanfiction with graphic sex, and between the fanfiction and the editing and published novel, 89% was retained, which hypothetically means 89% of the published novel can still be called fanfiction.

Those are the facts. What matters is personal interest--does something like this interest you? Then read it. If you don't want to read it, don't. If you want to read it for the purpose of trying to understand the phenomena, nobody's stopping you. If you really don't care and have no idea why you're reading this thread in the first place, then you should start another thread about a book you want to talk about! XD

Aug 30, 2012 19:11:47 GMT -8 aka Heidi (Away) said:

Just because Austen is long dead and her books are public domain, this is essentially the same thing. The authors of these Austen novels are basically using the idea and title of Austen's books to sell. Isn't this exactly what EL James is doing - using parts of a popular novel to sell her book? Just because Pride and Prejudice isn't owned by a singular person or publisher doesn't mean that's not right to take these ideas and use them for a money-grab. They were originally someone else's ideas, and just because she's dead doesn't make what EL James is doing any worse than the authors of Sense and Sensibility and Sea Monsters.

I agree with you Heidi, but the law doesn't. XD

[gloria]

I own pride, prejudice, and zombies.

and they claim that this was originally written by Austen. There is also Android Karenina and they make no qualms about it being originally Tolstoy. But to take someone that wasn't in the domain and then fix the major copyrighted parts and never claiming it was originally a Twilight associated piece of work is it's own sailboat. There is a difference between it being obviously a parody/copy that specifically states it's a parody from a book by the original author than saying they used the author as inspiration.

It's borderline plagiarism because it's well-known as a twilight fan-fiction with a more sexual twist and what would be deemed 'alternate universe' aka both human. However, it is not disguised very well when you can still pin point mannerisms and traits (even the lifestyle) for the comparing characters. Using the idea of parallels in Steinbeck and the Bible -- he has two books that parallel two books of the Bible. You can find the same ideas of Abel and Cain in Aron and Caleb (from East of Eden) but you can't say 'omg this sounds just like them' like you can with Christian and Edward. Does it mean he is taking an idea and using it for moneygrab? no, just taking the idea of a book and paralleling it with his own story. You also have The Hours which is a take on the idea of Mrs. Dalloway, and also incorporates Mrs. Dalloway into it very subtley, but is not making money off Mrs. Dalloway. However, 50 shades is too obvious to say it's only a parallel to Twilight that takes the idea of a mary-jane and an intimating,protective, and providing man while applying it to her own story.

That's an abstract idea, it makes sense in my head.
tl;dr: basically, there are parodies that don't hide the fact they didn't come up with the main idea. there are parallels that take a printed idea and use that enhance their story, and then there is obviously using someone's characters

[mercy]

Aug 30, 2012 18:27:28 GMT -8 Reilly said:

It is never "just a book." Fiction doesn't exist in a bubble. It's a reflection of us. Of what we value as a society and how we see things. We grow up with it and we learn from it, we make decisions based off it, and then we pass what we've learned on. Even if it's vile, bigoted, and wrong. Unless we make an effort to be aware of how our stories and media affect us, and understand they do mean something, it will continue to be passed on and cause real damage.

This is a bit of an offshoot of what you're all discussing. And I would say that yes obviously I agree nothing exists in a bubble. And all that is right. I just want to butt in and say that books have no responsibility to conform to anyone's idea of what is right, and they are also not to blame if it is that they cause a type of damage.

But I do not think it is logical or right to blame a book and say it is giving off bad morals, promoting bad actions.
It is impossible to ever isolate what you say or do and then go DON'T DO THIS AT HOME KIDS, because it is in everything. It is in this post, it was in when I was at dinner with my family and my sister wouldn't shut up about how I should look. It is not a writer's or a book's or any story's responsibility to present people and stories and parts of life that are presented in a moral way or in paths that people find respectable. Because in one way, of course, that everyone disagrees and so that's impossible.

I would say that if stories have any responsibility if they are going to be called good stories, it is if they make you think about life. Not necessarily about good choices, but about its complexities and who we are as people and full acceptance.

And what tends to bother me most of all with books like this that are regarded as detrimental is that you of course also isolate very large groups of people who are LIKE these characters and the critics do not understand them, they do not accept them, you just call them wrong. Books do not exist in a bubble. Even if you think the characters are flat, well, sometimes people are just "flat." And their greatness and interest can't be expressed as you want it to be expressed in your book. There is a person who has a lot in common with a person in a book, every book, and you are saying without knowing them that their choices are wrong and they are not people we should be looking to for support.

Everyone bonds with people in stories, and it turns out that some people bond to Christian, and some to the main character of Fifty Shades, and some people bond to Bella. And they are probably too afraid to say that because others will say that they are weak people, cliche, etc.
It's a lack of acceptance of people when you do not accept characters.

While everyone has opinions about what is the right decision, it's really never quite valid to say that someone else is living a bad life. That is their choice. And as long as it doesn't ruin someone else's choice in a detrimental way, then go right ahead. A book is just a story about a select part of life, a situation. Because it's something you think is detrimental to society is perhaps an issue instead that society is so easily affected by a story.

[Brittany (gone-ish)]

I’m in no way saying that the relationship between Christian and Ana is healthy, but what I’ve heard about Twilight is that the Edward/Bella relationship isn’t incredibly healthy…yet a ton of pre-teens, teens, and adults swooned.

But I do want to point out, Reilly, that all the negative and abusive behaviors you highlighted happen primarily in the first book. Christian is overbearing, jealous, and easily angered, but a lot of that behavior, as you find out, is the result of abuse he suffered as a child. So there is a reason and explanation for it—he’s “fifty shades of fucked up.” But also a lot of his behavior and treatment of Ana is derived from the dominant/submissive sexual relationship that he hopes to initiate. The whole premise of such a relationship is for the dominant to control and make the submissive feel inferior and lorded over. That isn’t necessarily my cup of tea, but people who are into that lifestyle will still exhibit those behaviors outside of the bedroom. Again, it’s not a lifestyle that is for everyone.

Although the BDSM is rampant through the other two books, by book two that contract is forgotten because Christian and Ana become a couple. And he never forces himself on her, ever. What BDSM they do, Ana has agreed to or encouraged. In fact, she begins to enjoy some of the heavier BDSM foreplay and has to convince Christian that she’s really ok with it. The scene in book one where he “beats” her, if I remember rightly, she told him to do his worst and he did. It frightened her but it’s not the same as someone’s boyfriend slapping them across the face or kicking them across the floor. BDSM is an actual form of foreplay—some people are turned on by a little—or a lot—of pain. But the relationship portrayed in Fifty Shades is consensual as fucked up as it may seem to everyone else.

Having sex with a virgin, as far as I know, is not a crime or unhealthy and again, he does make sure she’s ok with going that far. He also doesn’t start with the BDSM. And like I already mention, book two and three is Ana becoming very comfortable with the lifestyle and embracing it. And for what it’s worth, Ana matures and Christian manages to get over his screwed up past.

I’m not saying that the book is perfect or a manual to follow for a good relationship or even a good sex life. There are a toooon of issues that can be had with the helpless female character, the communication problems, etc. but I think you need to know the whole story before you decide whether it’s healthy or unhealthy. It’s a flawed relationship, but all relationships have their issues. Not necessarily to this extent, but aren’t most novels a dramatization?

And I’m a bit confused as to why Christian referring to his new bride as “Mrs. Grey” is something you kinda flag, Reilly. I have several newlywed friends and they go around calling each other “Mr. and Mrs.” because it’s a novelty and knowing they belong together, or come as a unit, is sweet.

I do agree with Ange that I don’t think it was really meant to be taken seriously or analyzed. It’s like any other trashy romance novel or erotica out there—it’s the type of book you go on vacation with, finish in a couple hours, and never really think about again lol. It’s not award-winning, there’s really no message that I can gather from it, it’s just for recreation. If you’re comfortable reading explicit sex, curious, or just into trashy romances it’s just another of thousands of options like V.C. Andrews, Nora Roberts, and the like.

It’s definitely a book to be read with an open mind if you do decide to read it though.